Arthurian Legend as told by Craig Case: Difference between revisions

'''I am reading all manner of stuff from Arthurian legend for various things (got an actual class on that which is win incarnate and a senior thesis project dealing with it), various books for my Later Medieval History class, and a pretty interesting smatter of selections from 17th century England for another class'''

'''....'''

'''the Mabinogion, History of the Kings of Britain, the works of Chretien de Troyes, Lady Cavendish's plays, Lady Clifford's journals, a comprehensive German account of the Crusades translated by my professor, the letters of Heloise and Abelard (parts of which are kinda fucking insane).. other stuff'''

'''Haha'''

'''Chretien de Troyes is my favorite author, many consider him to the creator of Arthurian romance (as opposed to the more epic earlier tales like History of the Kings of Britain)'''

'''Anyhow, Chretien is pretty much the French Chaucer in that everyone knew he was a significant author who put out masterpieces and preserved his works. He started most of the non-Arthur things that most people commonly know about Arthurian legend (Lancelot and the Grail. and the whole romantic aspect)'''

'''Hmm'''

'''Malory was adapting lots of prior material into a prose collection that spans the whole plot arc'''

'''Chretien writes particular stories in verse that center around a particular character and theme(s)'''

'''I think Chretien is easier to digest than Malory, yeah. His stuff is certainly finely tuned literature in every sense of the word and he challenges you to read between the lines and undercover everything he has running underneath the story; there are many nuances'''

'''Malory's the definitive because he collected lots of stuff together in a single volume that was in his English and it got printed all over the place'''

'''You don't get clearer the earlier you go, though. usually the opposite'''

'''Gildas is one of the earliest Arthurian writers, who wasn't even writing about King Arthur but was probably within a generation of the actual dude'''

'''And his shit is confusing as hell and crazy'''

'''He was trying to write history and wasn't terribly good at it :P'''

'''He doesn't really cite where he gets his information, and contradicts his own dates a couple of times. His narrative is also kinda unclear. And he's got an enormous bone to pick with his contemporaries, everyone from the commoners to the clergy to the nobility. The entire British race altogether really. :P'''

'''All the history is kinda overwhelmed by his sheer spite. :P'''

'''It's a hell of an interesting thing to read though, if you like peeking inside history.'''

'''History of the Kings of Britain tries to be history but is flagrantly literature in the guise of history and as such carries itself forward a good deal better than say, Gildas'''

'''It is also apparently the most popular book of the Middle Ages'''

'''It also really helps to read the history behind this stuff'''

'''Arthur is the national hero of Britain. Not England. He belongs to those folks in Wales ultimately'''

'''History of the Kings of Britain was written by a Welshman, Geoffrey of Monmouth, who pretty much was spreading pro-Welsh, pro-Norman, and pro-Brittany propaganda through it'''

'''Negative attitudes about the Britons/Welsh in earlier works like Gildas get transferred to the English'''

'''Arthur's only a part of it but he's the biggest part and it's pretty interesting to see how his legend really got popularized. It's missing a lot of the elements we attribute to it that were added by later writers'''

'''He also just loves to beat the shit out of people and call them effeminate creatures. :P'''

'''Anyhow, Chretien is purely literature for literature's sake'''

....:P

'''"You effeminate creatures."'''

'''Said to Romans before he, well, beats the shit out of them. :P'''

'''He's got a good bit of battle speeches'''

'''Just that particular line jumps out in my mind. :P'''

'''There is also the part where he looks at the image of the Virgin Mary on his shield and then proceeds to fly into an utter rage and kill about 1000 people singlehandedly. :P'''

'''Chretien's trying to say a lot of important things about society and the love between men and women and how they interact'''

'''Chretien's somewhat unique, at least in my readings, in that his worldview has a place for worthwhile contributions to society, faith in God, and having constant sex with beautiful women. :P'''

'''It's the question of how these things interact and balance each other into a sublime whole that is his main subject'''

'''If you like Celtic mythology he also weaves A LOT of that in subtly'''

'''Not sure what that is. :P'''

'''I do not use espers in FFXII. :P'''

'''An interesting sidenote is that all but one of Chretien's stories involve married couples. People nowadays typically conceive of courtly love being by definition adulterous but a lot of the stories (especially these "founding" ones, if you will) actually do involve married couples who are faithful to one another and experience true love. Ppl just tend to pay attention to Lancelot and Tristan. :P'''

'''Hmm'''

'''You mean when Cuchulainn goes absolutely insane and murderfies everybody?'''

'''Hmm..'''

'''Erec is badass in general'''

'''He has a pretty awesome moment where he suddenly revives from a coma because some fuck hit his wife, decapitates that guy instantly, and everyone in the castle runs away thinking he is a demon.'''

''':P'''

'''Yvain cruises around with a fucking lion'''

'''And tagteams worthless assholes with it'''

'''Yeah'''

'''Yvain's story is crazy in general'''

'''He spends a part of it as an insane d00d who lives in the woods'''

'''At one point he happens upon a dragon attacking a lion and he helps out the lion'''

'''Henceforth the lion is his constant companion'''

'''Not a big fan of Lancelot but he whups the villain of his story pretty handily. Beats him down, grabs his head, throws his helmet off, and decapitates him in short order. Literally to the cheers of dozens of onlookers'''

'''Perceval does all kinds of crazy stuff.'''

'''Perceval's the original Grail story and you'd think it'd start off like "And Perceval was a good pious boy who did everything right"'''

'''That is the later Galahad story'''

'''This, the original, has Perceval as a badass lunatic pretty much'''

'''Perceval is a kid who's been sheltered by his mom to the point he doesn't know anything exists besides the woods he and his mom (and their servants) live in'''

'''He goes around with a kinda crazy yeoman outfit and a bunch of javelins'''

'''One day he sees some mail-clad knights going through and he thinks "Holy shit. It's God and his angels"'''

'''And he's all "Sup God"'''

'''And the knights are like "What? We're just looking for some asshole"'''

'''Perceval's like "That guy? Yeah he went that way. What are you?"  "Knights"  "Who makes knights?"  "King Arthur"  "I must go and see King Arthur"'''

'''so Perceval goes to his mom and is like "There is a man outside the woods named King Arthur who makes Knights who are like God."'''

'''and his mom, who had retreated to the woods in the first place so Perceval would never become a knight (her husband was a knight and died in battle), sighs and tries to tell Perceval everything she can about existing in the outside world... in about 15 minutes.'''

''':P'''

'''Gives him a crash course in how to treat a woman'''

'''Basically be nice to them, be courteous, rules on conduct, when its proper to kiss'''

'''Perceval gets it all pretty much backwards'''

'''On his journey to Camelot, he finds a woman chillin out in the woods in a big ol pavillion. Just pretty much hanging out in the woods with her lover, except her lover's gone off to do some stuff.'''

'''Perceval goes in and is like "wassup. I will eat all of your food, molest you, and then steal your jewelry."'''

'''So the woman just kinda watches this crazy fuck with javelins eat her food, then he grabs her and kisses on her against her will, then takes her ring. :P'''

'''And goes off like "hohum"'''

'''Then her lover comes back. :P'''

'''And he's like "OMG you've been whoring around on me. Where is the ring I gave you?!"  "OMG THIS GUY TOOK IT"  "LIAR"'''

'''Then that guy basically binds her to his horse and drags her around in sackcloth. But we don't come back to that for a while. :P'''

'''Perceval goes to Camelot and meets King Arthur and just kind of walks up to Arthur with no idea what the proper way to do these things is and is like "Make me a knight, dude."'''

'''Arthur is cool and doesn't really care that this guy just walks up to him out of nowhere'''

'''And says "There is a knight in red armor who is defeating all of my dudes. Ruin his shit and you are a knight"'''

'''so Perceval goes up to this guy, who is out and around challenging and defeating knights all the time and is armed to the teeth, and just throws a javelin in his eye from 30 feet away and steals everything he owns.'''

'''so then Perceval is made a knight and just goes on a bunch of crazy wandering adventures. the Grail eventually comes up. :P'''

'''(as a whole the story is about his journey into manhood and virtue)'''

'''One subplot is his involvement with .. Blauncheflour I think was her name, a lady ruling a castle besieged by a nefarious guy. She basically manipulates him emotionally into being her champion and he of course swings the tide of battle to her side'''

'''Then, being Perceval, he takes off again but constantly thinks about her. And one instance of this is one of my favorite passages in any book ever'''

'''It's winter and Perceval's been crusing around on one quest or another, I forget which. But he comes across a slain bird. I forget how it died but its bled out onto the snow.'''

'''and Perceval looks at this red on white and considers how much it reminds him of Blauncheflour's beautiful face.'''

'''He dismounts and regards the blood, contemplating this beautious mystery for some time.'''

'''Arthur and his men are moving through this territory at the time and they see the armored knight standing perfectly still off in the distance'''

'''Arthur is wondering who this dude is.'''

'''Now, little backstory to another subplot'''

'''Kay, Arthur's foster brother, is a douche. Earlier in the story he struck a woman for being too loud (I think she was crying).  She ran off, swearing someone would avenge her someday.  Arthur just sorta looked at Kay and said "You'll get yours. I don't even have to do anything."'''

'''now Arthur sez "Hey Kay, go ask that dude what he's doing." :P'''

'''so Kay goes up, and being an asshat, declares that the mysterious knight immediately identify himself and his purpose.'''

'''Perceval: *contemplates*'''

'''Kay: "Listen jackass, I'm the king's seneschal and if you don't answer me I'll put the hurt on ya"'''

'''Perceval: *contemplates*'''

'''Kay: "Turn and answer me! This is your last warning."'''

'''Perceval: *contemplates*'''

'''so Kay charges him, whereat Perceval just kinda turns around, breaks numerous parts of his body, then silently goes back to regarding the blood on the snow. :P'''

'''Has Kay scooped up and taken care of but doesn't get mad or anything. :P'''

'''Sends Gawain next'''

'''On what grounds? :P'''

'''His mercy varies depending on the story; he's generally merciful by medieval standards'''

'''Anyhow, Arthur was basically seeing Kay's defeat as comeuppance for his cruelty towards women as said earlier'''

'''Gawain's got more sense and just chills out until Perceval is done checking out the blood on the snow'''

<nowiki>:</nowiki>P I guess not then.

'''Perceval: *eventually says something like &quot;Indeed&quot; and looks up* &quot;Oh wassup Gawain&quot;'''

'''Gawain: &quot;It's good to see you again Perceval!&quot; and all is coo. :P'''

'''I love it cuz it is so insane. :P'''

'''Yet awesome. :P'''

'''Speaking of insanity'''

'''If you like absolutely surreal stuff'''

'''give Culhwck and Olwen a read'''

'''We found it in a 12th century manuscript I believe, but most scholars think the story is one of the oldest Arthurian ones'''

'''You're down with Cuchulainn so you should get with this pretty handily'''

'''Culhwck, or Cullvch, or any other crazy variant spelling, has been cursed (a geas, as I'm sure you're familiar with)'''

'''His stepmother geas'd him with only ever being able to love Olwen..'''

'''the daughter of YSBADDEN. (or Ysbaddaden, etc)'''

'''YSBADDEN is a giant. (his daughter is somehow normal and fair). It is basically a curse to ensure Cullvch never has any children, because YSBADDEN will not let anyone marry his daughter (doing so means he will die)'''

'''Cullvch wonders what to do, since he knows he must love Olwen but doesn't even really know where she is or who Ysbadden is.'''

'''His father says &quot;Your uncle is King Arthur. Only he in all the word can help you.&quot;'''

'''Hahah yeah'''

'''So he goes to King Arthur, and Arthur agrees to help him, and he and his knights all have all kinds of trippy folklore-like adventures'''

'''Talking giant fish'''

'''They eventually find Ysbadden, and Ysbadden ends every conversation he has with them by throwing a spear at them. :P'''

'''They catch it and throw it back'''

'''Yup'''

'''ysbadden puts forth a huge list of things Cullvch must do to marry Olwen. One of them was getting the comb from Twrch Tyrysing or something (It means WILD BOAR in Welsh), who was a man who got turned into a boar for being a beast in everything but name'''

'''At the end they shave Ysbadden's beard and trim his hair.'''

'''Which kills him.'''

'''then Cullvch marries Olwen'''

'''You can kinda get a peek into early Welsh custom with this'''

'''First thing Cullvch does upon visiting his uncle Arthur is get his hair cut. Its a sort of &quot;passage into manhood&quot; thing'''

'''Ysbadden is basically a force of nature, representing the savage, beast-like, and usually rapacious aspects of man commonly associated with giants, and the &quot;passage into manhood&quot; -- or proper manhood/civilization -- literally undoes his being entirely'''

'''I think it was cool how it tied up like that at the end. :P'''

'''There's a lot going on underneath these things'''

<nowiki>:</nowiki>P I liked it just because it was a wild adventure!

'''Bahah yeah'''

'''I felt sorry for the sword guy.'''

'''Olaf I think'''

'''He's mentioned in that ENORMOUS list of people who serve Arthur'''

'''Pretty much'''

'''Cullvch DID go talk to Ysbadden and say &quot;That will be easy.&quot; to every impossible thing Ysbadden put forth, which was badass'''

'''and caught a javelin and threw it through Ysbadden's neck or eye, which was also badass'''

'''thats about it though.'''

'''Anyhow, Olaf was a guy with this knife he could draw out, set before a river, and the blade would extend to make a bridge over the river.'''

'''He dies later on, I think chasing Wild Boar, when his knife slips out, water fills the scabbard, and there's so much of it he's pulled down and drowned. :P'''

'''In my Arthurian Lit class my prof calls me after this guy. :P'''

'''cuz he was fooling around with the thermostat and needed some kind of narrow point, and he asked the class for a knife or a really stout pen, and no one had one so I pulled out my ol Case knife and he was like &quot;OMG thats a big knife&quot;. :P'''

'''so after that I became Olaf &quot;Big Knife&quot;. :P'''